This week we meet Chin-Heng Hong, the VP of Product Management at Couchbase, for a discussion about what’s new in database technologies and some of the patterns he sees in the industry. We also talk about Couchbase’s recent survey of Data Architects and some of the interesting findings it contains.
Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/kO0jQs_O6rk
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About Chin-Heng Hong:
Chin-Heng Hong is VP Product Management at Couchbase, the modern database for enterprise applications. A senior engineering executive with more than 25 years of experience, Hong previously held roles at Hewlett Packard, Oracle, Siebel Systems and others.
Couchbase – https://couchbase.com
Episode Transcript
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anthony_algmin: Welcome to the Data Leadership Lessons Podcast. I’m your host, Anthony J.
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anthony_algmin: Algmin. Data is everywhere in our businesses and it takes leadership to make
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anthony_algmin: the most of it. We bring you the people stories and lessons to help you
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anthony_algmin: become a data leader. Our show is produced by Algmin Business Media, where we
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anthony_algmin: make having your own video podcast as easy as joining a video call and
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anthony_algmin: sending an email. At Algmin Business Media, the stage is yours! Today
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anthony_algmin: on data leadership lessons we welcome Chin Hong. Chin is V. P of product
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anthony_algmin: on data leadership lessons we welcome Chin Hong. Chin is V. P of product
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anthony_algmin: management at Couchbase, the modern database for enterprise applications, a
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anthony_algmin: senior engineering executive with more than twenty five years of experience.
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anthony_algmin: Chin previously held roles at Hewlett Packard, Oracle, Siebel systems, as well
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anthony_algmin: as others. Chin, welcome to the show!
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chin: thank you, Antony.
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anthony_algmin: So likely, do with all our first time guests. Please take a moment and
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anthony_algmin: just tell the audience a bit more about your career before Couchbase, And A.
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anthony_algmin: How that led you to what you’re doing now?
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chin: Sure. so I got my undergrad degree from us Berkley, and A stayed on for my graduate
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chin: Sure. so I got my undergrad degree from us Berkley, and A stayed on for my graduate
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chin: degree. A master degree. Aly, working on postgrads under Professoral Stone Breakaker,
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chin: and before they have, take a couple of classes on Deliabies technology, But working
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chin: and postgrads was the first time I was exposed to the internals of a database system
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chin: and was be programming lists for the upper half of the system, And Uh Li is actually
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chin: the second oldest high level programming language
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chin: just a year younger than a Fortra. And I was responsible for the career education
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chin: engine, and so, basically using high language to recursively process individual notes
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chin: within the career plan. A structure as a three hierarchy.
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chin: I started my first job at Oracle, and as part of the small team working rewriting the
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chin: lower half of the Or kernel to support the transaction processing. So basically we
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chin: implement the role level locking and reconsistency to support higher concurrency for
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chin: over t P. applications. And uh, if we use Oracles, many of you probably run into the
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chin: snapshot to old errors. That’s there’s something that worked on as my first job, and
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chin: then continued to work on the Multiter server in August, seven of the Ob extensions
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chin: for Withu certified types in Ag Aid, and then Accensibility Framework, Inochur Eight
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chin: I, positioning Orchs a database for the Internet. So basically we supported part
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chin: extensions for text, special images and other data types,
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chin: and move on to work on enterprise application. So I co founded E Sara in late nineteen
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chin: nineties, to provide me to be Eous as a service as a match service. So at that time
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chin: everyone looked towards the Dean Francisco, and they want to be. I just posted, Child
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chin: of doing economics successfully, And
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chin: our slogan is You can be a dull, or in the nineited daysning, A manage it for you. And
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chin: as we all know, timing is a big factor in the success of of a setup, so we are
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chin: probably too early assess at that time, and taing, probably too complex. An
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chin: application is a bit to be solution, and has many custom back and complex Yupp
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chin: integrations and then internet bubble collaps on us two years into A
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chin: into a journey, So I move on the Sable, and later H Pm, before joining college space
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chin: seven years ago, running the management, so I can come a full circle in my career back
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anthony_algmin: that’s so cool. so I mean you have it. So this, this is an episode I can
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anthony_algmin: Like this is an episode where I get to like dive back into my roots as a
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anthony_algmin: as a as a database person data architect, and think through some of the
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anthony_algmin: things that I, I don’t spend as much time on these days and I know a lot of
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anthony_algmin: our audience does. And so it’s as I think about it, you you have these
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anthony_algmin: different stages that you’ve gone through in your career, but data obv,
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anthony_algmin: least obviously been a um, consistent threat. And you’re working on some
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anthony_algmin: pretty deep technical stuff and and building out features and things like
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anthony_algmin: Oracle. and and now doing things out with with Couch based. It’s how do you
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anthony_algmin: like? Let’s start high level. How do you build new capabilities in databases
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anthony_algmin: and get anyone to pay attention to them? Because I can speak from my
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anthony_algmin: experience as a as a date architect. Often timees you’re so deep in the
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anthony_algmin: weeds you you can barely figure out how to work with what you’re currently
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anthony_algmin: taxed with and what your current architecture set is. But it can be very
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anthony_algmin: difficult to think broadly about new capabilities and and what you’re trying
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anthony_algmin: to do. How do you get people thinking outside of what’s right in front of
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chin: I agree with you, is always a challenge for a technologist, and we have, especially in
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chin: the database system, Uh, where it’s so deep and broad and at Orc where people spend
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chin: their whole carages on transactions. Right. That’s all they know, and there’s all the
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chin: all they do for the entire career
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chin: and C were very close to our customers. And we start, we start with customer
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chin: requirements. I think that’s always good outside looking in and understanding
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chin: requirements. if you look at the with the benefit of A of looking at the new segre
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chin: evolution. If you look at the in the early days, in the in the nineties, and if look
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chin: at all the different systems being developed, it address the shortcomings of relation
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chin: system to handle the, at that time to new internet applications where you have data at
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chin: a hire, much higher volume than their back and
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chin: Y P systems, and didta come with different shape than form. it. No longer they don’t,
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chin: they no longer stay nicely in in the relation table, and you’re dealing with hundreds
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chin: of thousand, potentially millions of online users all the same time globally. And and
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chin: uh, that’s not a system. A relation. That’s not what the system are designed for what
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chin: designed for. So that force a lot companies, innovative companies like Facebook. You
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chin: look at early systems from Facebook, Netflix, Google and Uh, linking. They all build
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chin: the interneal system, trying to trying to handle these new requirements for modern
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chin: applications, And that’s a
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chin: genesis of what, no sequel or nonrelational system. So
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chin: and uh,
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chin: I was exposed to it seven years ago when I went out to lunch with a good friend of
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chin: mine from Orroacle, who was working a caruchpase. I just left H. P. At that time
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chin: looking for opportunities and he told me why you look at my company were doing
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chin: something very interesting, and uh, we, we’re addressing the needs of modern
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chin: applications, and as as i, as I learned more about the company has got really
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chin: intrigued by the not only the list of
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chin: large customers that they have at a at the early stage of company, but the type
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chin: application they’re running on Coch base. They’re all mission critical. They arere
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chin: running a business on on the on, the young and unproven technology, and that’s how
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chin: desperate they are Because they are running out. They are hitting the walls with the
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chin: reliation system,
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chin: and uh so in the early days because we were exposed to
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chin: the the requirement sidee even though my background is coming from from technology.
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chin: and and that really helps.
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anthony_algmin: Mhm, Mhm,
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anthony_algmin: That that makes it so Let let’s talk a little
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anthony_algmin: bitcause. I think about you know, No sequel is still something that is
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anthony_algmin: people’s. I think it’s most data architects have awareness at this point of
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anthony_algmin: sequel. They know they may not all have experience with it. Just because
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anthony_algmin: like we mentioned earlier, there is you kind of do what you have to do, and
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anthony_algmin: sometimes you don’t get that opportunity to expand
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anthony_algmin: into the No Sequel space, so it is often the second thing people think
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anthony_algmin: about. but I’m curious
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anthony_algmin: how often do you encounter
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anthony_algmin: workloads and clients that are still using kind of traditional relational
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anthony_algmin: databases for things that no sequel could make much better like. Is there a
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anthony_algmin: lot of this legacy relational stuff still out there that people haven’t yet
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anthony_algmin: transitioned to a more suitable technology?
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chin: yeah. So let me give it an example of a
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chin: of a customer that be using college before for four years now, and now they hundred of
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chin: internally. They instead, they is still using multiple daabases, and at the high level
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chin: as high level they they. they have a set of use cases. They sayation is good for and
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chin: understand Itss and then for no Sequt culture is standard. So I, as the architect, who
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chin: who chose Couch Bas four years ago, And why me going looking back four years ago, Why
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chin: did you pick couch spaces and
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chin: give me the top reason? his answer is scal out thebility scale out to provide high
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chin: availbility. So ing on on main frame and mainframe is monolitic. So if you have one is
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chin: is highervailability. If there’s probably the main frame, the whole system is now
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chin: right. So, and also, if you are going through transformation and opening up a system
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chin: to the end users, so
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chin: instead supporting thousands of internal user, you supporting hundred thousand of the
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chin: your end user directly. So the bleal system to scale over time is a key requirement
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chin: That’s very hard to do with a A with the main framewore. Have to keep buying begining
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chin: machine. So those that for that
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chin: company for the architect, that’s the primary reason for moving the couch base, or or
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chin: no secret technology, And you may have company that look do Nole. Because of the
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chin: schemma flexibility again, they may give it another example. This is the largest
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chin: retailer, one, the largest retailer in the world, and they have more than a million
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chin: skials kept on their catalogue and escape. Imagine if you,
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chin: the Schemma diagram of the application that can fiilm multiple walls is that complex
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chin: that bocing of tables with all the different relationship are tying them together, and
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chin: their challenge is business agility. To introduce a new product takes weeks and months
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chin: because they have to go through Schemma review, understanding how to extend the scheme
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chin: or whether the product fit in the things existing, Schemema, if they have to change by
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chin: the implication on on their existing application, And that process is just way too
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chin: deplace is handled by a d, b, a committee that doesn’t understand what the
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chin: applications are doing. So so because of that, they decide to move away from
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chin: Relational database, and now the entire catalogue service running on top of Couch
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chin: Base, with the dynamic Schma and Ajacon document, a data model To just improve the
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chin: ability for them to evolve their application. Introduce new products.
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anthony_algmin: Yes,
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chin: So so the different reasons for coming to know Sequre, but at the high level they are
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chin: very similar and across a different industry.
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anthony_algmin: Mhm.
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anthony_algmin: So are there any
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anthony_algmin: I? I don’t want to ask an Od for a question, but
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anthony_algmin: that’s kind of my thing. Um is. uh, Do you have any workloads or any
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anthony_algmin: solutions where you like? You know what couch base isn’t right. You should
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anthony_algmin: be using a relational database in a different context, or have you solved
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anthony_algmin: for using your technology anything that you would normally use a relational
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chin: definitely,
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chin: so, So as you say, to replace an existing system, you have to be ten ▁x Better. else.
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chin: the change is difficult. Not just because of
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chin: technology, but the skills set, the people that you have, and the ecosystem and
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chin: toolingk that you build and process will be around the technology that you’re using
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chin: today. So
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chin: if I’m deal is architect for company, I’m deciding the database platform from
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chin: application. My default choice today would be a relational system
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anthony_algmin: Mhm.
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chin: For obvious reason, that we may have a existing relationship with the Dalaas vendor.
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chin: We have licenses in place, or people know how to use the system. We all trained to do
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chin: it’s a lot easier to get get going. except when you run into key boton. Like I
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chin: mentioned, you need you, you. you need to scale out right. so If so, uh, I was amazed
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chin: that when they talk to C Space, one of the largest technology companies, I’,
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chin: the larger Techn company, and running the most mission Cre application cult that use a
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chin: profile store, and they are growing. They are adding millions of users every month,
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chin: right And and they, at any one time they can have millions of users logging into the
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chin: ecosystem and need authenticate. And you need to authorise them. Need to the Ins.
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chin: Millisecon. That’s
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chin: just not what relation the system are design for. So so because of that they, they, as
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chin: a company
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chin: they make make the best to to rely on the then, have a small company. We’ talking
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chin: about a couch, Ba, one point eight
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chin: eight years ago, right So so that’s Mets a long time ago, and they basically batt the
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chin: company on on top of they do. In stages. They, they start with the country as a cash
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chin: in front of their relation system, and over time they then they. they. we become a
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chin: system of record, the main system driving all the use of profiledication
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chin: So so uh, there’s certain things that you. You just cannot do with relation, mention,
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chin: uh, the ability to scaled out to support millions of user, Uh, at a that scale higher
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chin: availability. So if you have to be trained four by seven and you’re running Aud
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chin: environment, you didn’t support global deployment and you may be multipleil centres
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chin: and they all need to be connected to support your global audience. So you have such
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chin: applications very hard for relation to do it. And uh, if you need schema flexibility
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chin: you’re dealing with with semi, strack allows semitructure data, or as your building
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chin: new application, where Jeon is your data. not not just e. basically your your. The.
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chin: on. They need to evolve very quickly and again, so those are good reason to to uh to
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chin: explore a new sealy.
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anthony_algmin: right. So it for those folks that are a little bit less technical
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anthony_algmin: can you just give us a quick characterization of what? what is no sequel
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anthony_algmin: versus what is this relational database? That that we keep talking about?
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anthony_algmin: What are the differences between these? and are there some general rules of
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anthony_algmin: themumb? on why you would choose one over another,
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chin: in the early, I think the
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chin: they are going to the evolution, so in the early days there’s definitely a lot more
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chin: differences. No sequel is focusing on the scale out, supporting web application.
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chin: Theirs lot more schem of flexibility, and when not as strong in data integrity, if
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chin: you’re doing a finance transaction, you probably do not want to use Po. A No sequel
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chin: five years ago.
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chin: And uh, so, if uh, it consistency. If a transaction
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chin: is the number one driver, you probably st with the relation system, but that’s
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chin: changing, so so relation system is evolving, adding skillar capability. look at the Aa
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chin: at new system.
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chin: Their adding skiller capability, even though they are in baby steps and no Secre
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chin: system are caltivated adding transaction of capabilities, our latest, or a couch based
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chin: seven, which added statement, A secret transaction, So you can do a begin transaction.
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chin: You can issue a sequel against
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chin: adjacent data, and and guarantee theity the s property of that of the transaction. So
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chin: are converging, and over time I do expect that no sequ system will take more and more
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chin: as we. as the technology mature. you get more people train on on on the new system.
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anthony_algmin: So
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anthony_algmin: let me play for you what I would typically tell someone when as that
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anthony_algmin: question. So
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anthony_algmin: typically, when
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anthony_algmin: I think about it, relational systems tend to be very good at aggregating
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anthony_algmin: data, doing complex calculations, large summations and and mathematical
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anthony_algmin: equation driven types of of Um. collections of of information, whereas no
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anthony_algmin: sequel tends to be very good at search and retrieval types of information,
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anthony_algmin: gaining attributes about a specific thing. This is why we use it for Um,
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anthony_algmin: like log in credentials, and and
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anthony_algmin: pulling back Um. account information and things like that. because once you
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anthony_algmin: get that one record then you can get the richness associated with it versus
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anthony_algmin: in a relational system, It’s very good at taking one attribute and looking
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anthony_algmin: at it across a bunch of different things, Um, or, or really, just like using
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anthony_algmin: a bunch of different attribute or the same attribute a bunch of across a
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anthony_algmin: bunch of different accounts to do a calculation. Understand sales
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anthony_algmin: transactions, or or what have you? But uh for no sequel, And this is where
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anthony_algmin: it gets interesting. There’ a lot of ground stuff that need to kind of do
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anthony_algmin: both, and in my opinion,
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anthony_algmin: I find that the No sequel, um, kind of design approach is a little bit
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anthony_algmin: easier to adapt to some of those middle ground use cases versus the
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anthony_algmin: relational side,
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anthony_algmin: but relational, in my opinion, seems to always win in the end when it comes
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anthony_algmin: to like large scale calculation, just massive number crunching. I don’t know
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anthony_algmin: that no sequels ever going to be as good at that can. Would you agree or
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anthony_algmin: would you say you don’ know what you’re talking about. There? There is some
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anthony_algmin: really cool tech that we’ve been working on That that solves for that,
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chin: the descriptions are correct for for most of the newcosyts out there, because if you
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chin: look at like you mentioned system, the early, especially in the early days, the focus
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chin: is on performanceability and ability to to retrieve and object a document a subm
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chin: secondsponse time. Because you are dealing with millions of of user, like releasing a
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chin: millions of us of logging, and at the same time we need to be able to meet that the
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chin: requirement, and having said that at Cou base, our focus has always been uh,
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chin: marrying the enterprise grade of relation and capabilities with theability of
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chin: flexibility, new platform. So we have the one company that take that unique approach.
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chin: And if you look at the
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chin: an example, So we one, we’re probably the only company to have a most comprehensive
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chin: sequ support on top ofdjacson. So we havetend sequ to support, rather than
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chin: inventingriet a language. For a couple reason, As you mentioned, sequel ispprovingor
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chin: language or doing,
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chin: you can do simple select selecttay from employe where I d equal to Acts. All can
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chin: do very complex aggregation, mult joints or union intersection, And so it’s a very
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chin: powerful language. Uh, for building Applic, enterprise application,
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chin: also extended to Suj, Ss can combine the benefit of both,
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anthony_algmin: Mhm.
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chin: so so we see us put in very strongly, as as you mentioned in the middle ground, right
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chin: when people reatforming their their current relation system and they need to move the.
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chin: looking for a modern database And Collegech would be a natural platform
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chin: for for for them to evaluate, Because be then we have a family Apqu language that
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chin: they. They have to retrain the engineering. Sta.
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anthony_algmin: Hm,
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anthony_algmin: that’s so no. Now now that I’m interested. Well, I was interested
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anthony_algmin: before, but like it’s it’s It’s thinking about how you’re able to start to
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anthony_algmin: blend those. And and this is something that I’ve seen manifest itself in.
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anthony_algmin: you know, a database engine space. I’ve seen it in them. And the meta and
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anthony_algmin: catalogu space, it’s It’s like you have these kind of general
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anthony_algmin: Um you functionality that gets associated with a particular kind of
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anthony_algmin: then all of these vendors start to spring up that start to blur the lines
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anthony_algmin: between everything. And so you have to understand Like Okay with’s our
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anthony_algmin: definition. And then why is you
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anthony_algmin: know vendor A B, C’s offering, kind of like a dash of this and a bucket of
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anthony_algmin: this, and then a splash of this thing over here and it, and it’s really
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anthony_algmin: interesting. But if you don’t understand for the people out there, uh that
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anthony_algmin: are are listening to this kind of like. I don’t understand half of these
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anthony_algmin: words. It’s there’s you have to understand some of the fundamentals before
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anthony_algmin: you can really understand what a vendor’s approach to what they’re doing
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anthony_algmin: really is, because they’ll tend to exist in a place that blends these things
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anthony_algmin: in a unique way that may very well suit your particular needs. Ex
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anthony_algmin: exceptionally well Because they. They’re generally doing this because
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anthony_algmin: they’ve identified a need in the marketplace that
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anthony_algmin: says, if we had these technology capabilities all in one and could solve for
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anthony_algmin: some of the deficiencies of historical products in this area. Hey, we got a
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chin: yes, They give you another example, so so very well say so we look at
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chin: a smartphon.
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chin: So smartphone is a combination of we use. Carry a phone with emails. we have a pager
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chin: where email system we have a. we have a music player, we have a a Gp. navigator. Now
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chin: they all combine into a single platform iphone. And uh, it’s just not the summsation
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chin: of the part, iss the integration that allows you to build very interesting
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chin: application, and and take the user Sp to the next level. So for Cp, between the same
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chin: thing, we are integrating multiple services in into a single platform. You mention
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chin: about very highly skillable key value access. That’s where our foundation is whether
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chin: document database reflects Sch. We, we support Coly indexing so that the retain
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chin: debility and doing complex operation as you describe. and
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chin: we have analytics. So so so we describe yourself as a hybrid transactional,
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chin: operational, operational and aneical system. So if you look at a lot of modern
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chin: application in real time, you need to analyse a lot of data and use the data to try
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chin: personalised experience. And we actually have a Antic service run independent of the
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chin: operational system in one single cluster, So that you one single system and you can do
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chin: complex. We actually have a m, p P engine that can run very complex ▁query at in real
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chin: time, and do a last submission aggregation and find the data and use the insight to
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chin: drive the interaction or within a single
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chin: system’s correct.
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anthony_algmin: it helps to think about things like the phone. The phone is something that
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anthony_algmin: we probably have. Most of us have one within arms reach right now. wherever
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anthony_algmin: we are a lizard, we might be listening to the show
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anthony_algmin: on a phone’. Quite likely, and it’s that integration and that blurring of
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anthony_algmin: lines and that reduction to what’s what is necessary
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anthony_algmin: Is it simplifies the user experience,
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anthony_algmin: and it does so with enormous complexity behind the seedes.
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anthony_algmin: And that’s the thing is, I often think about how Um, you know, being simple
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anthony_algmin: and being concise is a extremely complicated endeavour And it, and it takes
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anthony_algmin: a lot of effort to like, write a short email. You know.
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anthony_algmin: it’s that that classic apology.
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anthony_algmin: You know, I would have. I would have written less, but I didn’t. I didn’t
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anthony_algmin: have the time to do, so you know it. and so,
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chin: this is especially true for a distributor system. this
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chin: system is very complex, so as you say, our goal is to make the complex system very
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chin: simple, both for our developer architect, and also for the for the
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chin: a person. That’s why, if look at space, whether running on a desktop or we are running
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chin: on a hundred note cluster, they are all the same. We ▁ought. to partition the data,
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chin: we automatically replicate the data for highability. If notes go down, we ▁ought to
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chin: recover and and rebalance the data for you all without interruption to your
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chin: application, So making complex simple
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anthony_algmin: Mhm, Mhm,
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chin: but it very beneficial to to your users.
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anthony_algmin: Yeah, it it. and it’s true. it’s true in the product and technology space.
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chin: Yeah,
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chin: that’ct
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anthony_algmin: One of my when I coaching consultants, I tell them your job is to make your
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anthony_algmin: clients life simpler. To make it easier. Don’t bring the problem to your
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anthony_algmin: client. bring the answer. bring the solution to your client, And that’s
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anthony_algmin: where you’re going to add
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anthony_algmin: value. And so you know technology does the same thing is it’s nobody really
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anthony_algmin: cares about the technology. They care about what the technology does for
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anthony_algmin: them. And then if you can, if you can connect them to something valuable,
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anthony_algmin: then your technology is valuable to. so.
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chin: Yes, and phone is another, uh, good way to understand the new type of application that
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chin: enterprises are building.
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chin: We, we use our use our phone to do all things today right. so
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chin: to make a reservation, I just actually came back from doctor’s office inulfilling a
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chin: form. Actually register online because the e,
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chin: c, uh is, see a registration so that I can walk in and see the doctor right away. And
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chin: if you think about
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chin: Ied, S is as one the largest customers running twenty million Ops per second on toper
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chin: couch spaces at that scale. And think about, I think we’ old enough to to remember
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chin: when when we used to make up travel plan we call up a travel agent. I say I’m
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chin: going. I’m going back in this game. I’ from Malaysia. going back to Malaysia. Can you
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chin: help me look at what the flightvability between A during Christmas, so come back with
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chin: with a few choices. You iterate over the phone a few times and you put your ticket,
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chin: But nowadays we all go to kayak or Speedi, and we do a slicing enticing look at all
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chin: type of options. And and what are you think of phone or or web browser, And the
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chin: requirements Application trends are change drastically, and in the old time the travel
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chin: agent log into a main frame or a large a database, and probably tens of thousands of
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chin: them doing that at any one time with
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chin: the poorer, like Kayanak or experience. Now we expos it to millions of users and they
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chin: are all doing all kinds of research or or searches or or using a phone, or or their
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chin: computer. What? Because the look to book ratio, That’s the the term. that. Uh, they
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chin: used to describe the number interaction that you do with the system before you you
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chin: perform a transaction
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chin: changes from a few hundred to one to, in A’s case, three hundred thousand to one. It’s
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chin: a thousand foot increase, so we are all doing all kinds of requests before we. we book
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chin: a ticket right. And you
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chin: need system to people handle that increase in interaction with the end user to
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chin: provided personalised experience. and before they they do a transaction. So people to
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chin: do that efficiently at the scale that you need globally require a modern database
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chin: platform that you just cannot.
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chin: Y. system.
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anthony_algmin: right right.
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anthony_algmin: So I want to spend before we start to run out of time. Because I could talk
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anthony_algmin: to you about database technologynogies and couch base this
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anthony_algmin: entire time, But there’s a you guys did a um, kind of survey in a research
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anthony_algmin: study around Di
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anthony_algmin: digital transformation and digital architects, And we want to talk about
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anthony_algmin: some of the the results from that be cause. I think they’re very
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anthony_algmin: interesting, especially
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anthony_algmin: in the context of the pandemic and all that, so you can talk a little bit
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anthony_algmin: about what that effort was about, and what those those findings were, and
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anthony_algmin: talking about some of the details beyond it.
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chin: yeah, sure, thank you. We basically surveyed about four and fifty architects in United
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chin: States, United Kingdom, Germany, and France, or the country that we focus on, And uh,
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chin: so ask a bunch of question about the the challenges that they have and and what they
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chin: are doing with technology in the in the digit projects And a couple of findings are
385
00:27:46,541 –> 00:27:50,458
chin: pretty interesting. First of all, as you know, Uh, digit transformation has been the
386
00:27:50,458 –> 00:27:55,250
chin: top of sea, a gender for for many years now, and with the pandemic actually put a lot
387
00:27:55,333 –> 00:28:01,583
chin: of pressure on on on the enterprises or the businesses to both change and update
388
00:28:01,708 –> 00:28:08,625
chin: theiristing system, Uh to to handle new environment, and also to deal with the or the
389
00:28:08,708 –> 00:28:14,041
chin: new remote working environment. How the team collaborate and we, half of the architect
390
00:28:14,458 –> 00:28:18,541
chin: actually responded, saying that they are under extreme pressure, high pressure to
391
00:28:18,833 –> 00:28:23,791
chin: deliver on the digital projects today or last year, versus a year ago, which is about
392
00:28:23,958 –> 00:28:28,375
chin: nineteen percent. So there’s a three food increase in in number People feeling the
393
00:28:28,458 –> 00:28:31,791
chin: pressure because of the whole panemic, uh, a situation,
394
00:28:32,958 –> 00:28:33,958
chin: and
395
00:28:35,125 –> 00:28:36,125
chin: adopting technology
396
00:28:37,958 –> 00:28:43,666
chin: is a key part of making sure that your the transformation uh, is successful. And so we
397
00:28:43,791 –> 00:28:47,791
chin: ask question on what technology using the helps and doesn’t help. and
398
00:28:48,833 –> 00:28:53,333
chin: not surprisingly cloud in big data are the two technologies that more than half of the
399
00:28:53,416 –> 00:28:57,666
chin: architects said U. B, they believe would be transformative in in how they are doing,
400
00:28:59,166 –> 00:29:05,000
chin: Uh, the new projects, and uh. The interesting thing is many of them are still using
401
00:29:05,083 –> 00:29:10,833
chin: relation deliveries as as as you just mentioned, but most about sixty one percent of
402
00:29:10,916 –> 00:29:16,041
chin: them say that relation system are holding them back for the reason that that I just
403
00:29:16,125 –> 00:29:22,208
chin: described when you are opening up the system to to online user. The Deta requirements
404
00:29:22,375 –> 00:29:26,458
chin: are very different then than what what they are used to are dealing with. So they are
405
00:29:26,541 –> 00:29:31,708
chin: all struggling with with looking at evaluating new modern database, and no sect is an
406
00:29:31,791 –> 00:29:35,250
chin: obvious choice, And we believe that by providing
407
00:29:37,083 –> 00:29:38,541
chin: and skill set is always a challenge.
408
00:29:39,375 –> 00:29:40,375
anthony_algmin: Mhm, Mhm,
409
00:29:40,375 –> 00:29:43,500
chin: moving from a system that you know well to a new system,
410
00:29:44,625 –> 00:29:48,708
chin: understand the architecture, Understand the a P, I the K language. So we try to make a
411
00:29:48,750 –> 00:29:54,208
chin: seamless uh, for for enterprises, and by providing the sequ interface to Jason, that
412
00:29:54,458 –> 00:30:00,541
chin: really helps them, and also help them move in stages where you don’t have to re up the
413
00:30:00,541 –> 00:30:03,333
chin: whole system and replace with new one can do the overtime. That can mention the
414
00:30:03,416 –> 00:30:07,333
chin: largest customer that we have eight years ago when they adopt, Cult base is to use at
415
00:30:07,500 –> 00:30:12,208
chin: persistent cash in front of the main frame, and that over time they may become the
416
00:30:12,208 –> 00:30:16,916
chin: source of truths. They integrate data from multi multiple system and eventually they.
417
00:30:16,916 –> 00:30:20,208
chin: They actually send a picture that the role of the truck, the main frame of the truck
418
00:30:20,541 –> 00:30:25,583
chin: right. So, but they took it’s a multi year journey. and uh, and we believe that we
419
00:30:25,666 –> 00:30:30,625
chin: need to help our customer go through that transition in moving from a legacy to a new
420
00:30:30,625 –> 00:30:31,625
chin: technology.
421
00:30:33,333 –> 00:30:39,500
anthony_algmin: Yeah, so I can relay as as a digital architect myself. Um, you know some of
422
00:30:39,500 –> 00:30:43,583
anthony_algmin: the challenges that that I saw in with a cover, Nineteen panic, and
423
00:30:44,125 –> 00:30:50,000
anthony_algmin: kind of a quick and unplanned shift to a widely dispersed work force and
424
00:30:50,125 –> 00:30:54,375
anthony_algmin: fully promote and all of that, And there were some interesting dynamics that
425
00:30:55,333 –> 00:30:58,375
anthony_algmin: I that. I, I wonder, um you how it
426
00:31:00,083 –> 00:31:03,583
anthony_algmin: impacts what we did and are doing now,
427
00:31:04,625 –> 00:31:10,541
anthony_algmin: and also I. I find myself thank you being so happy that at least we had the
428
00:31:10,625 –> 00:31:14,958
anthony_algmin: technology to continue working the way we hadcause. I mention, like if we
429
00:31:15,041 –> 00:31:21,416
anthony_algmin: didn’t have the video chat functionality and the cloud backbone for so much
430
00:31:21,583 –> 00:31:25,083
anthony_algmin: of what we’re doing with data and technology today, things would have been
431
00:31:25,416 –> 00:31:29,583
anthony_algmin: much more difficult to manage remotely. Um, can you talk about some of the
432
00:31:29,666 –> 00:31:33,666
anthony_algmin: findings in that that survey around that, like with the cloud and with some
433
00:31:33,750 –> 00:31:38,208
anthony_algmin: of the remote, you know, the shift, remote work. What changed in terms of
434
00:31:38,375 –> 00:31:41,833
anthony_algmin: the architecture on the on the back end? Do we have to do anything really
435
00:31:42,000 –> 00:31:46,125
anthony_algmin: quick to to put out fires? Or were we ready for this and we maybe didn’t
436
00:31:46,291 –> 00:31:48,000
anthony_algmin: even realize we were ready for this?
437
00:31:48,708 –> 00:31:50,458
chin: yes, we just look at Uh
438
00:31:52,708 –> 00:31:57,083
chin: as a consumers, our daily lives, and how we interact with the with enterprise system.
439
00:31:57,666 –> 00:32:02,375
chin: I mention. I, just I, just uh, have a doctor appintment log in. I register online.
440
00:32:02,916 –> 00:32:06,375
chin: Going to the restaurant. Now you scan a ▁qb code. You are no longer looking at
441
00:32:06,458 –> 00:32:13,083
chin: physical menu, and so industry, other industry, The the experience is is moving to to
442
00:32:13,333 –> 00:32:18,208
chin: digital. And and the panemic just accelerate and put more pressure on company, Uh to
443
00:32:18,291 –> 00:32:25,000
chin: do that. And so you need a system that can provide personal experience for on mobile
444
00:32:26,541 –> 00:32:31,958
chin: and web and unie system that can deal with uh, De. a lot. personalized data like
445
00:32:32,208 –> 00:32:37,708
chin: different different form shapes and De. With the increase in interaction right people
446
00:32:37,875 –> 00:32:41,250
chin: looking at manual. Now they look at them and look at photos. you look at reviews. That
447
00:32:41,333 –> 00:32:44,750
chin: what my wife does all the time, go to the restaurant and just look at all the picture
448
00:32:45,000 –> 00:32:49,000
chin: and figure which which are to order longer, looking at at the paper menu, And
449
00:32:49,083 –> 00:32:51,875
chin: they put a lot of tremendous load on your system that
450
00:32:53,166 –> 00:32:57,500
chin: you do not have with the prior application. So you thing through that that new
451
00:32:57,708 –> 00:33:03,583
chin: requirementing through how how do archite my system to handle that new requirement And
452
00:33:03,666 –> 00:33:09,000
chin: how do I do in phases? But it’s very hard top and replace a complex system overnight
453
00:33:09,333 –> 00:33:14,458
chin: and having a system that allowed you to face your changes in is is critical Du to the
454
00:33:15,708 –> 00:33:17,791
chin: of of uh, digital projects.
455
00:33:19,041 –> 00:33:24,083
anthony_algmin: Yeah, that’s a. That’s a great point for non technical folks as well be
456
00:33:24,083 –> 00:33:27,833
anthony_algmin: cause. we we think about change management and that that people, and and
457
00:33:28,000 –> 00:33:32,000
anthony_algmin: customers, especially they can only handle so much pace of change.
458
00:33:32,375 –> 00:33:36,125
anthony_algmin: There’s only so many different things you can ask people to do all at once,
459
00:33:36,541 –> 00:33:41,166
anthony_algmin: so you have to think about how can we ease people into a new way of
460
00:33:41,333 –> 00:33:45,833
anthony_algmin: interacting with our organization. And that’s true on the customer side, and
461
00:33:45,833 –> 00:33:49,083
anthony_algmin: I think that we can think about things like menus, and and how
462
00:33:49,250 –> 00:33:52,958
anthony_algmin: people order food, and and and do things that we do all the time, but then
463
00:33:53,083 –> 00:33:58,375
anthony_algmin: also on the employee side, as we serve our employee base, and and help them
464
00:33:58,958 –> 00:34:02,625
anthony_algmin: help us. right. How do we serve our employees so that we can put them in a
465
00:34:02,708 –> 00:34:07,083
anthony_algmin: position to be successful, Whether they are remote working when they’re when
466
00:34:07,166 –> 00:34:11,750
anthony_algmin: they’re in the office when they’re traveling for whatever purposes that they
467
00:34:11,916 –> 00:34:16,625
anthony_algmin: have? How can we give them an experience in their work so that they can do
468
00:34:16,791 –> 00:34:20,541
anthony_algmin: their best work, and so that they can help our organization grow in the way
469
00:34:20,625 –> 00:34:25,083
anthony_algmin: our organization needs to de, serve those customers who we are now engaging
470
00:34:25,333 –> 00:34:29,583
anthony_algmin: with in in ways that for many organizations they hadn’t done before the last
471
00:34:29,583 –> 00:34:30,583
anthony_algmin: year or two,
472
00:34:32,041 –> 00:34:37,000
chin: so I guess we’ we’ lucky to live in an era that we have a lot of tooling helped to
473
00:34:37,000 –> 00:34:43,083
chin: help us work remotely. Thefering is one. So so we are now using a lot more frequently
474
00:34:43,333 –> 00:34:44,375
chin: than than uh,
475
00:34:45,500 –> 00:34:49,083
chin: than we used to A year and a half ago. the ability
476
00:34:49,250 –> 00:34:51,250
chin: to do messaging instantly Withs
477
00:34:52,375 –> 00:34:55,000
chin: that helps communication. Then you
478
00:34:56,375 –> 00:34:59,875
chin: definitely need to find way to bring people together, whether it is informal, happy
479
00:35:00,208 –> 00:35:04,750
chin: hours, Virtu, happy hours that we do once in a while, just just to make sure that we
480
00:35:05,000 –> 00:35:10,625
chin: continue to have directly. We missing a lot of the of theways conversation and
481
00:35:10,708 –> 00:35:15,250
chin: knowledge transfer in the remote environment, so we need to find new ways to keep in
482
00:35:15,416 –> 00:35:19,250
chin: touch and Uh is challenging for for Uh,
483
00:35:20,458 –> 00:35:25,583
chin: for a lot of companies, and many of us are used to working remotely, So it’s It’s a
484
00:35:25,666 –> 00:35:32,208
chin: easier transition for some, some of us than others, but surprisingly in a survey,
485
00:35:32,833 –> 00:35:37,791
chin: architects that most companies are responding quite well to the challenge, and more
486
00:35:37,958 –> 00:35:42,541
chin: than, despite the increased pressure to keep the lights on for existing application
487
00:35:42,708 –> 00:35:48,708
chin: and accelerate new projects, and about forty per. Cent of the architecture say they
488
00:35:48,708 –> 00:35:53,875
chin: are delivering on on their dial project and interrupted by the pandemic. That is a
489
00:35:55,083 –> 00:35:59,250
anthony_algmin: Mhm, Mhm, but it is, it was still a troubling side. One of those those uh
490
00:36:00,083 –> 00:36:04,708
anthony_algmin: figures that were in that report is that level of pressure and stress
491
00:36:04,916 –> 00:36:05,958
chin: that’s correct. Yes,
492
00:36:05,958 –> 00:36:09,333
anthony_algmin: was definitely more pronounced now than it had been in the past,
493
00:36:09,333 –> 00:36:09,791
chin: definitely, yes,
494
00:36:10,458 –> 00:36:14,875
anthony_algmin: and I and I think you know when I think about it it it’s you know. just like
495
00:36:15,041 –> 00:36:19,833
anthony_algmin: we have this convergence of the human and the digital in terms of how the
496
00:36:20,000 –> 00:36:24,125
anthony_algmin: customers are engaging with our businesses, I also see, and I’ve seen this
497
00:36:24,208 –> 00:36:28,291
anthony_algmin: for a long time. This is probably decades in the making is the convergence
498
00:36:28,625 –> 00:36:34,208
anthony_algmin: of the technology application and the technology data. It used to be in our
499
00:36:34,291 –> 00:36:38,291
anthony_algmin: organization. We had a data group that was doing data and back off stuff and
500
00:36:38,375 –> 00:36:41,583
anthony_algmin: building our our databases. And then we had the application group that was
501
00:36:41,666 –> 00:36:43,250
anthony_algmin: working on user interfaces, and
502
00:36:43,666 –> 00:36:46,375
anthony_algmin: I, I would venture to guess you’ve written a click of end or two in your
503
00:36:46,458 –> 00:36:51,333
anthony_algmin: life as well, and it’s like Th. These used to be totally parallel groups and
504
00:36:51,666 –> 00:36:55,666
anthony_algmin: those have converged greatly, and I think kind of no sequel sits at the
505
00:36:57,666 –> 00:37:04,708
chin: I. I mention that thees one key requirements, the data flexibility and being being
506
00:37:04,916 –> 00:37:08,458
chin: able for an application group to be responsible for your own Schemma, and the
507
00:37:08,458 –> 00:37:13,666
chin: evolution of it is key, because with the new Micros architecture, you have a huge
508
00:37:13,791 –> 00:37:17,583
chin: application is not broken down into Micross, and their different Sc. Teams are
509
00:37:17,666 –> 00:37:21,083
chin: responsible for each micro and their resonse for their own Sch.
510
00:37:22,125 –> 00:37:27,791
chin: and in in many cases the choice of the database, as well, so putting the responsible
511
00:37:28,041 –> 00:37:30,541
chin: back into the application allow more agility and
512
00:37:31,083 –> 00:37:38,208
chin: enable the ability to really evolve quickly and all. And nowadays the companies are
513
00:37:38,291 –> 00:37:42,708
chin: rolling application on a daily basis, changes application, And you just could do that
514
00:37:42,833 –> 00:37:47,791
chin: When you, you have mas between the groups and then you have go to Com to get a change
515
00:37:48,125 –> 00:37:49,708
chin: approve before you can implement something.
516
00:37:51,833 –> 00:37:56,125
anthony_algmin: Yeah, so from your perspective, then as a person who works for an
517
00:37:56,291 –> 00:38:00,083
anthony_algmin: organization who’s building, you know this, this technology and and at that
518
00:38:00,208 –> 00:38:05,166
anthony_algmin: forefront of data and application and that convergence in the cloud, and and
519
00:38:05,250 –> 00:38:11,750
anthony_algmin: all of these scalability. Uh considerations. how do you recommend people go
520
00:38:12,083 –> 00:38:16,083
anthony_algmin: about man managing a technical career For like those folks that are looking
521
00:38:16,208 –> 00:38:19,500
anthony_algmin: and saying, Wow, I’ve been doing. You know data warehousing for the last
522
00:38:19,833 –> 00:38:23,041
anthony_algmin: twenty years, or you may be a a college student that’s getting ready to
523
00:38:23,083 –> 00:38:26,208
anthony_algmin: graduate and says you know I got to figure out where do I want to focus.
524
00:38:27,083 –> 00:38:31,166
anthony_algmin: What kind of advice do you have for about what what’s coming up like? how do
525
00:38:31,333 –> 00:38:35,041
anthony_algmin: people manage their careers in this time of
526
00:38:36,208 –> 00:38:39,750
anthony_algmin: you know, confusion and uncertainty and convergence, and all of these things
527
00:38:40,000 –> 00:38:43,750
anthony_algmin: that are kind of mashing together to create these experiences. How do you
528
00:38:43,916 –> 00:38:48,000
anthony_algmin: pick a spot or like? What do you focus on to become effective in your
529
00:38:48,125 –> 00:38:50,083
anthony_algmin: career? In this current time?
530
00:38:50,458 –> 00:38:51,458
chin: Yes,
531
00:38:52,916 –> 00:38:58,208
chin: being curious is good. So as you mentioned, things are changing so rapidly and we
532
00:38:58,375 –> 00:39:02,625
chin: constantly need to relearn and a new technology. But the good thing is
533
00:39:03,666 –> 00:39:06,750
chin: for myself, person in the datpace, conceptually
534
00:39:07,875 –> 00:39:11,166
chin: things doesn’t changed that much transaction. The concept of transaction is still
535
00:39:11,250 –> 00:39:15,416
chin: valid. People should talk about asset right. This is implementing that in a new
536
00:39:15,500 –> 00:39:20,625
chin: environment, New architecture is, Is, Is is challenging and in some case interesting.
537
00:39:21,541 –> 00:39:22,541
chin: So so uh,
538
00:39:23,583 –> 00:39:29,083
chin: taking what we used to do in with the Moity system and applying that in the in a world
539
00:39:29,333 –> 00:39:34,708
chin: where things are distributed and eventually from you going to push all the way to now
540
00:39:34,750 –> 00:39:38,625
chin: we’re looking at as a company looking atdge, computing. A lot of companies happening
541
00:39:38,750 –> 00:39:42,375
chin: at the computings happening at the edge and it allows interaction happening at the
542
00:39:42,458 –> 00:39:47,583
chin: edge. And how T you? when you have from a field data centre, Now you exploding to
543
00:39:47,791 –> 00:39:52,458
chin: hundreds and thousands of edges, right, and how to manage that complex environment.
544
00:39:53,250 –> 00:39:54,250
chin: So,
545
00:39:55,083 –> 00:40:01,791
chin: and uh, being curious, continue to to learn for myself is is understand the the space
546
00:40:02,041 –> 00:40:07,000
chin: that I’m in, and and tracking the the advances in their space. The good thing that
547
00:40:07,083 –> 00:40:11,166
chin: there are so much on that can they can research on the web. And if you want to get
548
00:40:11,333 –> 00:40:15,083
chin: your hands on the system, there’s so so many systems that provide free online
549
00:40:16,208 –> 00:40:21,250
chin: account that you can sign on like a look into Syn, and, and start doing some simple
550
00:40:21,416 –> 00:40:24,208
chin: prototyping to learnable technology, so
551
00:40:24,625 –> 00:40:29,000
chin: starting time is a challenge. So if you have curiosity, if if if you’re willing to
552
00:40:29,083 –> 00:40:33,166
chin: learn, I think there are lots of channels that that allow you to ear to do that.
553
00:40:34,083 –> 00:40:36,708
anthony_algmin: Yeah, I would add to that my own advice
554
00:40:37,083 –> 00:40:39,583
anthony_algmin: is you understand the fundamentals Understand
555
00:40:39,750 –> 00:40:42,208
anthony_algmin: when we say sequel, understand how to write a ▁query, and
556
00:40:42,458 –> 00:40:46,375
anthony_algmin: understand how some basic relational dao does work. You don’t have to become
557
00:40:46,541 –> 00:40:49,750
anthony_algmin: a you. an expert necessarily, but dabble with it. Understand a little bit
558
00:40:49,916 –> 00:40:53,041
anthony_algmin: about it. Understand what documents are key value pairs,
559
00:40:53,333 –> 00:40:59,083
anthony_algmin: and and how to do some Basicjson texts, and and just understand what that
560
00:40:59,250 –> 00:41:02,708
anthony_algmin: world is about, and then understand how programming works. Even just pick up
561
00:41:02,791 –> 00:41:06,958
anthony_algmin: some Python. Python Is is accessible. You can you can understand that, So
562
00:41:07,083 –> 00:41:12,000
anthony_algmin: get some of these kind of basics in the core areas and then start to
563
00:41:12,375 –> 00:41:16,791
anthony_algmin: understand. Okay, how do these different technologies twist them? How do
564
00:41:16,875 –> 00:41:20,958
anthony_algmin: they bring different strengths together in unique ways, and then make it so
565
00:41:21,041 –> 00:41:24,875
anthony_algmin: that you can scale greatly, or that you can have acid types of T
566
00:41:25,166 –> 00:41:29,333
anthony_algmin: transactions in a no sequel environment? Or how like those things start to
567
00:41:29,416 –> 00:41:33,583
anthony_algmin: make sense. if you have a basis of the Fo foundational principles, and then
568
00:41:33,750 –> 00:41:38,625
anthony_algmin: to your point, I think is as strong a point as can be made Is be curious
569
00:41:39,083 –> 00:41:44,791
anthony_algmin: under, like. Try to understand how this stuff works and let yourself be her
570
00:41:44,875 –> 00:41:48,458
anthony_algmin: through a path under, like figure things out. And I think that’s a good
571
00:41:48,791 –> 00:41:52,625
anthony_algmin: advice as well, because you have to understand that story. You have to
572
00:41:52,791 –> 00:41:56,291
anthony_algmin: understand the that con activity. It’s not all just about features and speed
573
00:41:56,541 –> 00:42:01,083
anthony_algmin: and and and attributes. There’s there’s a story behind why these
574
00:42:01,333 –> 00:42:04,375
anthony_algmin: technologies exist And that’s why I like to have these conversations on
575
00:42:04,458 –> 00:42:07,666
anthony_algmin: data. Leadership lessons is that we get to learn a little bit of the
576
00:42:07,750 –> 00:42:11,500
anthony_algmin: thinking behind something like Couch Base, where like we can go out on the
577
00:42:11,500 –> 00:42:14,625
anthony_algmin: Web and learn. Hey, this is what Couch base does and it’s good at this. And
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00:42:14,875 –> 00:42:17,916
anthony_algmin: and the review say this, and this is what the cost modetl is. All that stuff
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00:42:18,083 –> 00:42:22,791
anthony_algmin: is fine, but to understand some of the thinking behind the product from a V
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00:42:22,958 –> 00:42:27,583
anthony_algmin: P of product. that to me is why we do this show is so that we can understand
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anthony_algmin: some of that story behind it and connect it to what we might be doing in our
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chin: yeah, I agree with you, because at the high level, all of the same improving kio,
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chin: improving us experience performance in scale, but you need double click on on exactly
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00:42:42,625 –> 00:42:47,000
chin: whats this spot? that what use case with their dressing, and how, and why the existing
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00:42:47,166 –> 00:42:49,000
chin: system do not rest as well.
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00:42:50,000 –> 00:42:53,750
anthony_algmin: Yeah, and so for those folks that are, think about couch base or thinking
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00:42:53,916 –> 00:42:57,833
anthony_algmin: about other technologies, do you have any recommendations for? like how do
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00:42:57,916 –> 00:43:01,250
anthony_algmin: you evaluate these tools when you’ to your point like they all kind of sound
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00:43:01,500 –> 00:43:05,416
anthony_algmin: the same, especially when you’re not an expert in this area Like I’ve got a
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00:43:05,416 –> 00:43:08,875
anthony_algmin: team. I got to do data stuff. I got to figure out a technology selection.
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00:43:09,250 –> 00:43:14,125
anthony_algmin: And how do I start to approach that in a way that that makes sense? Like how
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00:43:14,375 –> 00:43:16,000
anthony_algmin: how do you recommend people do that?
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chin: so uh,
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chin: the lot open source product Cont has one is one, as and then most all of them, if not
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00:43:24,916 –> 00:43:29,583
chin: all, offer of community edition, So you can get your hands on on the software easily
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00:43:29,666 –> 00:43:35,958
chin: and can say that the cloud service can get a free account easily. Just uh, like you
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00:43:36,041 –> 00:43:40,375
chin: say, get your hand stury and just start prototyping. Think about the application that
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00:43:40,458 –> 00:43:45,666
chin: you want to build and uh with a mobile product would want to be first example that we
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00:43:45,708 –> 00:43:51,166
chin: show people do do list how to showcase offline capability When when the network is
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00:43:51,250 –> 00:43:54,708
chin: there can still add it you to do list. and then when network is back you can you can
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00:43:54,708 –> 00:43:59,708
chin: see synchroise with the database. So do something a simple application. Many time do
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00:43:59,958 –> 00:44:02,041
chin: will help understand the technology
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00:44:03,083 –> 00:44:04,125
chin: and and what they are dressing
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chin: behind that so so get getting hands on.
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00:44:09,416 –> 00:44:10,416
chin: Learn about the technology
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00:44:11,791 –> 00:44:16,750
chin: that build some simple application on your own, and I think that’s a good way to
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00:44:18,208 –> 00:44:22,708
anthony_algmin: I think that’s great advice. and just like that we’re out of time like that
608
00:44:22,875 –> 00:44:24,541
anthony_algmin: would buy so quickly. I
609
00:44:24,625 –> 00:44:27,500
anthony_algmin: was actually as stouted. I’m like, Oh, my goodness, we’ve got over forty
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00:44:27,666 –> 00:44:32,375
anthony_algmin: minutes already. Um. But I think that’s a great note to to end on is is how
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anthony_algmin: to go about
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00:44:34,708 –> 00:44:38,875
anthony_algmin: taking that complexity that is surrounding us and starting to make it
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00:44:38,958 –> 00:44:43,041
anthony_algmin: simpler and more actionable and in a way that Um, helps us solve those
614
00:44:43,166 –> 00:44:48,125
anthony_algmin: problems that are are like, like your research said, are more pressure laden
615
00:44:48,375 –> 00:44:51,583
anthony_algmin: and more important to the success of our organizations than than they ever
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00:44:52,291 –> 00:44:53,291
chin: yes,
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00:44:53,875 –> 00:44:59,500
chin: and uh, I know’. been pleasure talking to you. It goes by a lot quicker than expected
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00:44:59,708 –> 00:45:04,458
chin: and was actually nervous that I don’t have enough topics to the last forty five
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chin: minutes, but it went by so quickly
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anthony_algmin: Well, Itj, thank you so much
621
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anthony_algmin: for for being on the show and and and I’ve done my job if I can get you to
622
00:45:12,125 –> 00:45:15,250
anthony_algmin: forget that you’ve been on a pod gaz. that we’re having a conversation
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00:45:15,416 –> 00:45:18,708
anthony_algmin: for an audience and that I’m doing my job. So I’m I’m glad that went by
624
00:45:18,958 –> 00:45:21,041
anthony_algmin: quickly and I really enjoyed our conversation.
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00:45:21,500 –> 00:45:23,416
anthony_algmin: and thank you you, too. and thank you all for joining us today. You’ll find
626
00:45:23,416 –> 00:45:25,666
anthony_algmin: and thank you you, too. and thank you all for joining us today. You’ll find
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00:45:25,833 –> 00:45:29,583
anthony_algmin: more information and links in our show notes. Dive deeper with my book at
628
00:45:29,666 –> 00:45:33,833
anthony_algmin: DataLeadershipBook.com and use Promo Code ALGMINDL at the DATAVERSITY
629
00:45:34,000 –> 00:45:37,500
anthony_algmin: training Center for twenty percent off your first purchase. please remember
630
00:45:37,666 –> 00:45:40,541
anthony_algmin: to follow Data leadership lessons on Youtube or wherever you get your
631
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anthony_algmin: padcasts and if you enjoy the show, please rate and review and help others
632
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anthony_algmin: find us. Stay safe during these unusual times and go make an impact!
